She swam it as fast as Mark Spitz did when he set his world record in the 1972 Munich Games. That's bloody fast! But there have been other Chinese ladies doing spectacular things in the pool too. Sixteen year old Chen Qian swam an 8:20 800 free - her best time in February was 8:37. Qi Hui, 24, formerly a world record holder in 200 breast way back in 2001, swam a 2:21 in the same event. Her best time in 2007 was just 2:29, more than six seconds slower than her 2001 best.
I've always maintained that after a certain swimmer commonly assumed to be using undetectable custom steroids had success in Beijing the floodgates to rampant doping in sport would open wide once more. When I hear Aaron Peirsol say he doesn't expect swimmers to slow down much when bodysuits are taken away in 2010 it seems my worst fears are coming true.
lol lord voldemord writing an article with wrong information about the chinese swimmer chen qian : giving her ranking outside the 300 best in 2008 and giving her wrong PB. On another board , a comment made me check on lord voldemord site their own ranking file: she was 38 th last year : that is far from being after the 300 ranking .
Fantastic swim from the Beijing champion. Wonder if the training the Australian Ken Wood, Jessicah Schipper’s coach, is said to have sold to Liu Zige and her coach for “big money” helped.* Will Schipper be able to take her world record back from Zige once again..
Shaving 1.6s off the old world record is not quite as impressive as Ariana Kukors’s recent world records, but it’s up there with that!
P.S. As to who is accusing her of doping, check out threads like this - http://www.collegeswimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4317&sid=df28c5d3deb9c9df0500b16b76ffbe78
"she won the 100 free just shy of the record" Liu Zige won the 100 bufferfly and she has not become a 100 free swimmer AFAIK.
"Were there any Chinese swimmers in Durban?" I am not sure, but the coach of Liu Zige said she would compete in Berlin and Stockholm in November according to their plan. You will never find such info except in Chinese websites.
"Chinese never send anybody out to do international competitions?" This is so not true. The Chinese team did quite well in the world championship the past summer. Besides China has competed in World Cup every year since it was founded. It is a shame that there are still people don't know about it. Who is to blame? Can we say media?
Many of the doping rumours mentioned I believe are just groundless and started by those people who are jealous and biased. I am not saying all the swimmers in the meet are clean. However, until convincing evidence is provided, rumours will just be rumours. Anyone can have his or her own suspicion, but I believe basically we should respect the efforts of swimmers, unless they are actually caught.
Every time Mr. Lord posts any news about Chinese swimming on swimnews.com, there will by 99% chance be fierce rants and bashes on the doping issues by quite a few Chinese swimmers back in 90's, as well as strong allusions to today's Chinese swimming with ignorance to their continuous efforts to eradicate drug usage. As much as I respect him as being a moralist, I think he is too enthusiastic about it to such a degree that he have tirelessly mentioned the same thing again and again and even have created some fake evidences and facts to support himself, which actually undermines the reliability of his information. It is really sad that swimnews.com, as one of the major international swimming info source, has misled so many people, some of whom actually further re-create and spread groundless rumours and show strong disrespect and ignorance.
Having said so, I am just a swimming fan, who suddenly feel having too much to say today after such a long long silence.
I am pro tech suit and he is not. His articles infuriated me so much in that they summarily drove the debate against them that I decided to remove Voldemort's site out of my links column and then promised I would never mention his name ever again. "He who shall not be named" became my motto.
I called him Voldemort after I had to respond to him after he wrote another article that pissed me off.
He might not be Tony's cup of tea but for me Craig Lord is a hero. The American Swim Coach Association agrees with me as well - awarding him their "Swim Journalist of the Year Award" - so my admiration has plenty of company. One reason is that he's very seldom wrong about his facts. Chen Qian's 8:34 800m time and 38th ranking in 2008 came from her time at the 2008 Chinese National Long Course Championships held in September. Yes, it appears Craig Lord is mistaken about the details and timing of her progression up the world rankings, but the substance of his argument remains unaffected. A sixteen year old has taken fourteen seconds off a time already ranked 38th in the world in a little over one year - that's suspicious. With the abundance of female stars we'd expect one or two males to shine as well and they're not there. Massive improvements raising several unknown girls to the top of the swimming pyramid in a period of time best measured in months and no male participation - it screams doping.
Scott, why don't you go to John Leonard's ASCA operation, read through the site, look at all the money you have to send him to become a "certified coach." Then, look what qualifies you as a "black belt" or "Level 5" coach. Ultimately, you have to purchase it and/or score "points" like a role playing game.
To get the 'Shaolin tattoos' on your arms for the final state of "level 5" you have to get a swimmer onto a championship team, and/or serve on a international board for swimming which means FINA
Maybe these sort "weight watchers" score cards are needed to ensure good coaches but when money changes hands, I get a bit cynical.
It has nothing to do with how long you have coached, but rather, where and who you are...
Clay Evans is a great Coach, Erik Hochstein is a great coach, Bonnie Adair, and a redhead I know who doesn't like me anymore all due to stupid suit issue.
They are not certified - perhaps FINA with all their F-ing money should certify coaches for free based upon contribution and results.
You have every right to doubt, Sir, but with sentences like "we'd expect one or two males to shine as well and they're not there", "no male participation", I am horrified. Hope you didn't created it yourself but were told by your trustworthy friend. Please, please do some homework...
Well if you want to change the subject I'm perfectly game. On your suggestion I did look at the ASCA website and reviewed their certification program. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Canada has one almost identical to it. I know Australia also has the same system for grading coaches. It's a system that works. Certainly there are individuals who are naturally talented at coaching and will be a good coach from Day One, but everybody improves with experience - much of coaching is learning how to train and motivate very different personalities and talent. That takes experiencing all the foibles and tribulations of coaching many, many swimmers. Something which necessarily takes time.
The emphasis on the first couple of levels should be fundamentals. Not only does that provide the necessary understanding required by coaches to instruct elite swimmers it's also what's most needed by beginners. As a coach ascends the certification ladder the courses move away from fundamentals to areas more applicable to highly competitive athletes such as psychology, physiology, etc. The requirement a coach must have demonstrated he or she can develop elite swimmers to gain higher certification provides the necessary hurdle of competence. Again, to me at least, this is all perfectly reasonable.
Take my parent club for instance. In our first tier of coaching are former competitive swimmers who've decided they want to stay involved in swimming through coaching. They start out by coaching the developmental group (what in my day was called 8&U). Some experience there and they may move up to coaching our "non-competitive" 11&U group - still all fundamentals, but with more emphasis on mastering the finer details of the four strokes and kick. Three to five years of that and they can progress to the older kids who are competing competitively; and with success at that level they can expect to move up to one of the elite age group categories or even higher. What is good development for a coach is also good development for those in his or her care. A head coach of a major club in this country will invariably be a Level 5 coach whose coached at least one Olympian at one time or another. Is there a better way?
You complain about having to pay in order to be certified. Why? We expect to pay to attend University, why not certification as a coach? Surely you can't expect those spending the time and effort in the certification process to volunteer their time? When I was blogging I took issue with those clubs who relied on volunteer coaches. I believe it's unfair to rely on someone to perform a service consistently day in, day out without some remuneration. It can be a token amount but it needs to be paid, otherwise the coach/swimmer relationship suffers. You only take seriously those things which you've earned.
Lastly, when all is said and done, the proof is in the pudding. The coaching in the United States is universally acknowledged as the best in the world. The ASCA must be doing something right.
24 comments:
wasn't that the 200m?
ooops, she won the 100 free just shy of the record and stormed the 200... My bad.
ooops, she won the 100 free just shy of the record and stormed the 200... My bad.
I believe this record was LCM. Such a ridiculous time, though!
I should never post at night
That record will stand for decades without the suit. Mary T's record stood for about 20 years at 205. Now we are 3 + seconds faster.
There is some talk of drug taint at that meet. Hopefully it turns out to be rumors.
There is talk that she doped? Who is saying or accusing her of doing this?
Also, how come the Chinese never send anybody out to do international competitions?
Were there any Chinese swimmers in Durban?
I say this for the more they cmpete, the more chances for the Chinese to prove they are clean.
She swam it as fast as Mark Spitz did when he set his world record in the 1972 Munich Games. That's bloody fast! But there have been other Chinese ladies doing spectacular things in the pool too. Sixteen year old Chen Qian swam an 8:20 800 free - her best time in February was 8:37. Qi Hui, 24, formerly a world record holder in 200 breast way back in 2001, swam a 2:21 in the same event. Her best time in 2007 was just 2:29, more than six seconds slower than her 2001 best.
I've always maintained that after a certain swimmer commonly assumed to be using undetectable custom steroids had success in Beijing the floodgates to rampant doping in sport would open wide once more. When I hear Aaron Peirsol say he doesn't expect swimmers to slow down much when bodysuits are taken away in 2010 it seems my worst fears are coming true.
lol lord voldemord writing an article with wrong information about the chinese swimmer chen qian : giving her ranking outside the 300 best in 2008 and giving her wrong PB. On another board , a comment made me check on lord voldemord site their own ranking file: she was 38 th last year : that is far from being after the 300 ranking .
That is really funny!
that says a lot about lord voldemord.
Fantastic swim from the Beijing champion. Wonder if the training the Australian Ken Wood, Jessicah Schipper’s coach, is said to have sold to Liu Zige and her coach for “big money” helped.* Will Schipper be able to take her world record back from Zige once again..
Shaving 1.6s off the old world record is not quite as impressive as Ariana Kukors’s recent world records, but it’s up there with that!
*Link: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hHp_Q4bQIfr0kP0FsGud_3InNUYw
P.S. As to who is accusing her of doping, check out threads like this - http://www.collegeswimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4317&sid=df28c5d3deb9c9df0500b16b76ffbe78
Mostly American coaches and swimmers, I think.
Tony,
"she won the 100 free just shy of the record"
Liu Zige won the 100 bufferfly and she has not become a 100 free swimmer AFAIK.
"Were there any Chinese swimmers in Durban?"
I am not sure, but the coach of Liu Zige said she would compete in Berlin and Stockholm in November according to their plan. You will never find such info except in Chinese websites.
"Chinese never send anybody out to do international competitions?"
This is so not true. The Chinese team did quite well in the world championship the past summer. Besides China has competed in World Cup every year since it was founded. It is a shame that there are still people don't know about it. Who is to blame? Can we say media?
Many of the doping rumours mentioned I believe are just groundless and started by those people who are jealous and biased. I am not saying all the swimmers in the meet are clean. However, until convincing evidence is provided, rumours will just be rumours. Anyone can have his or her own suspicion, but I believe basically we should respect the efforts of swimmers, unless they are actually caught.
Every time Mr. Lord posts any news about Chinese swimming on swimnews.com, there will by 99% chance be fierce rants and bashes on the doping issues by quite a few Chinese swimmers back in 90's, as well as strong allusions to today's Chinese swimming with ignorance to their continuous efforts to eradicate drug usage. As much as I respect him as being a moralist, I think he is too enthusiastic about it to such a degree that he have tirelessly mentioned the same thing again and again and even have created some fake evidences and facts to support himself, which actually undermines the reliability of his information. It is really sad that swimnews.com, as one of the major international swimming info source, has misled so many people, some of whom actually further re-create and spread groundless rumours and show strong disrespect and ignorance.
Having said so, I am just a swimming fan, who suddenly feel having too much to say today after such a long long silence.
By the way， do you people refer Craig Lord as Lord Voldemord? Is there some story there?
I will say it again, my readers are so much smarter than I am.
Craig who?
I am pro tech suit and he is not. His articles infuriated me so much in that they summarily drove the debate against them that I decided to remove Voldemort's site out of my links column and then promised I would never mention his name ever again. "He who shall not be named" became my motto.
I called him Voldemort after I had to respond to him after he wrote another article that pissed me off.
Thanks, Tony. I am flattered.
He might not be Tony's cup of tea but for me Craig Lord is a hero. The American Swim Coach Association agrees with me as well - awarding him their "Swim Journalist of the Year Award" - so my admiration has plenty of company. One reason is that he's very seldom wrong about his facts. Chen Qian's 8:34 800m time and 38th ranking in 2008 came from her time at the 2008 Chinese National Long Course Championships held in September. Yes, it appears Craig Lord is mistaken about the details and timing of her progression up the world rankings, but the substance of his argument remains unaffected. A sixteen year old has taken fourteen seconds off a time already ranked 38th in the world in a little over one year - that's suspicious. With the abundance of female stars we'd expect one or two males to shine as well and they're not there. Massive improvements raising several unknown girls to the top of the swimming pyramid in a period of time best measured in months and no male participation - it screams doping.
Scott, why don't you go to John Leonard's ASCA operation, read through the site, look at all the money you have to send him to become a "certified coach." Then, look what qualifies you as a "black belt" or "Level 5" coach. Ultimately, you have to purchase it and/or score "points" like a role playing game.
To get the 'Shaolin tattoos' on your arms for the final state of "level 5" you have to get a swimmer onto a championship team, and/or serve on a international board for swimming which means FINA
Maybe these sort "weight watchers" score cards are needed to ensure good coaches but when money changes hands, I get a bit cynical.
It has nothing to do with how long you have coached, but rather, where and who you are...
Clay Evans is a great Coach, Erik Hochstein is a great coach, Bonnie Adair, and a redhead I know who doesn't like me anymore all due to stupid suit issue.
They are not certified - perhaps FINA with all their F-ing money should certify coaches for free based upon contribution and results.
You have every right to doubt, Sir, but with sentences like "we'd expect one or two males to shine as well and they're not there", "no male participation", I am horrified. Hope you didn't created it yourself but were told by your trustworthy friend. Please, please do some homework...
Well if you want to change the subject I'm perfectly game. On your suggestion I did look at the ASCA website and reviewed their certification program. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Canada has one almost identical to it. I know Australia also has the same system for grading coaches. It's a system that works. Certainly there are individuals who are naturally talented at coaching and will be a good coach from Day One, but everybody improves with experience - much of coaching is learning how to train and motivate very different personalities and talent. That takes experiencing all the foibles and tribulations of coaching many, many swimmers. Something which necessarily takes time.
The emphasis on the first couple of levels should be fundamentals. Not only does that provide the necessary understanding required by coaches to instruct elite swimmers it's also what's most needed by beginners. As a coach ascends the certification ladder the courses move away from fundamentals to areas more applicable to highly competitive athletes such as psychology, physiology, etc. The requirement a coach must have demonstrated he or she can develop elite swimmers to gain higher certification provides the necessary hurdle of competence. Again, to me at least, this is all perfectly reasonable.
Take my parent club for instance. In our first tier of coaching are former competitive swimmers who've decided they want to stay involved in swimming through coaching. They start out by coaching the developmental group (what in my day was called 8&U). Some experience there and they may move up to coaching our "non-competitive" 11&U group - still all fundamentals, but with more emphasis on mastering the finer details of the four strokes and kick. Three to five years of that and they can progress to the older kids who are competing competitively; and with success at that level they can expect to move up to one of the elite age group categories or even higher. What is good development for a coach is also good development for those in his or her care. A head coach of a major club in this country will invariably be a Level 5 coach whose coached at least one Olympian at one time or another. Is there a better way?
You complain about having to pay in order to be certified. Why? We expect to pay to attend University, why not certification as a coach? Surely you can't expect those spending the time and effort in the certification process to volunteer their time? When I was blogging I took issue with those clubs who relied on volunteer coaches. I believe it's unfair to rely on someone to perform a service consistently day in, day out without some remuneration. It can be a token amount but it needs to be paid, otherwise the coach/swimmer relationship suffers. You only take seriously those things which you've earned.
Lastly, when all is said and done, the proof is in the pudding. The coaching in the United States is universally acknowledged as the best in the world. The ASCA must be doing something right.
I don't think it is reasonable... I think it reeks of money grabbing and cronyism.
Fina and USA swimming should do it for free.
Wow- her 100 split would have made the finals in the 100 fly in last year's Olympics!
Mark Savage
"Wow- her 100 split would have made the finals in the 100 fly in last year's Olympics!"
A very astute observation that underlines just how 'amazing' her performance was.
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